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16
Lifestyle / Alimentatia sanatoasa
« on: 30 November 2018, 21:50 »
Tu nu imi expui acum punctul tau de vedere asupra unor studii, ci punctele ale unor oameni care s-au uitat pe niste studii si si-au exprimat o parere.
Ca idee, apar aprox. 200 de studii in nutritie pe ZI.

Anw:
Unii se simt fantastic manacand plant-based, unii zicand ca o alimentatie bazata pe putine alimente animale ar reprezenta calea catre o speranta de viata ridicata.
Altii se simt fantastic manancad keto/paleo/atkins, unele studii sugerand acest lucru. Sunt studii care arata cazuri de diabet, de exemplu, care se imbunatatesc pe o alimentatie keto/paleo/atkins. Este un doctor (Daniel Amen) care trateaza ADHD-ul si, din experienta lui, vede imbunatatiri la pacienti atunci cand consuma acest gen de alimentatie.
Unii spun ca reglemantarile impuse acum de organizatiile mondiale de sanatate sunt impuse de companiile farmaceutice, care inainte de toate sunt guvernate de bani.
Altii ar spune ca marea majoritate a studiilor care indica faptul ca grasimile saturate nu afecteaza intr-un mod direct colesterolul si implicit viitoarele probleme cardiovasculare, sunt gresite prin modul care sunt realizate (intentionat), acestea fiind finantante de companiile din domeniu (carne, oua, lapte).

Cat despre prezentarea domnului Peter Attia, uite o analiza a prezentarii lui (de catre un vegan am senzatia), punct cu punct:

https://www.libertariannews.org/2016/03/07/dr-peter-attia-readdressing-dietary-guidelines/


Parerea mea e expusa in textul de mai jos:

Quote
The people inhabiting Blue Zones(regions of the world where Dan Buettner claims people live much longer than average) share common lifestyle characteristics that contribute to their longevity. The Venn diagram at the right highlights the following six shared characteristics among the people of Okinawa, Sardinia, and Loma Linda Blue Zones:[12]

Less smoking
Semi-vegetarianism – the majority of food consumed is derived from plants
Constant moderate physical activity – an inseparable part of life
Legumes – commonly consumed
Social engagement – people of all ages are socially active and integrated into their communities
Family – put ahead of other concerns

17
Lifestyle / Alimentatia sanatoasa
« on: 29 November 2018, 23:14 »
strategia de prevenire a bolilor cardiovasculare. bazata pe ipoteza gresita a grasimii luata drept cauza. aka the lipid hypothesis
toate datele cu boli degenerative urca vertiginos cam de cand consumul de zahar si ulei rafinat a crescut. si aici sunt studii lungi pe tari si perioade, extrem de relevante!deci. vorbim stiinta. nu babe pe drum iesite duminica la biserica. s t i i n t a.
attia a vorbit aici despre cum a inceput si unde am ajuns, ca multi altii deja:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhzV-J1h0do
un mic fapt important: keys a pacalit doctorii folosind margarina -trans fats- in teste, in loc de untura.
si daca margarina e interzisa in romania/europa (oare este?) atunci cititi va rog despre uleiurile hidrogenate - aceeasi marie cu alta palarie.

Quote from: World Health Organization
World Health Organization - 23 October 2018
Energy intake (calories) should be in balance with energy expenditure. To avoid unhealthy weight gain, total fat should not exceed 30% of total energy intake (1, 2, 3). Intake of saturated fats should be less than 10% of total energy intake, and intake of trans-fats less than 1% of total energy intake, with a shift in fat consumption away from saturated fats and trans-fats to unsaturated fats (3), and towards the goal of eliminating industrially-produced trans-fats (4, 5, 6).

Quote from: The American Heart Association

The American Heart Association recommends aiming for a dietary pattern that achieves 5% to 6% of calories from saturated fat.
For example, if you need about 2,000 calories a day, no more than 120 of them should come from saturated fat.
That’s about 13 grams of saturated fat per day.
There’s a lot of conflicting information about saturated fats. Should I eat them or not? The American Heart Association recommends limiting saturated fats – which are found in butter, cheese, red meat and other animal-based foods. Decades of sound science has proven it can raise your “bad” cholesterol and put you at higher risk for heart disease. When you hear about the latest “diet of the day” or a new or odd-sounding theory about food, consider the source. The American Heart Association makes dietary recommendations only after carefully considering the latest scientific evidence.


Quote
It was just a year ago, on June 15, 2017, that a Presidential Advisory from the American Heart Association was published on the topic of dietary fats and cardiovascular disease.

“The advisory reports that:
Randomized controlled trials that lowered intake of dietary saturated fat and replaced it with polyunsaturated vegetable oil reduced cardiovascular disease by approximately 30 percent –similar to that achieved by cholesterol-lowering drugs, known as statins.

Sadly, unity on this topic did not develop after June of 2017. The conversation took an ugly turn likely due to financial or career conflicts with the AHA statements. The most outrageous of the reports in response to the AHA Advisory was titled “Is the American Heart Association a Terrorist Organization”. Geary claimed that the AHA was even more effective than ISIS at terrorism! This piece of irresponsible reporting was sadly reposted, liked or retweeted by some prominent figures like Aseem Malhotra, MD, a cardiologist in the UK, and celebrity author Nina Teicholz. If you wanted more outrage last summer your got it by reading the post asking whether the AHA or coconut oil was more likely to kill you? Why did Teicholz retweet such an untenable media headline grabber linking this advisory to the “AHA killers”? Equally poor judgement was exhibited in a piece entitled “Why Coconut Oil Won’t Kill You but Listening to the American Heart Association Might!” posted on social media. The accompanying meme with the quote and a spoon of the white oil in dispute was shared or liked on Twitter by some prominent leaders in medicine.

De ce ar minti World Health Organization sau The American Heart Association? Ce motiv au? Suntem prea multi si vor sa ne imbolnaveasca?
Sa inteleg ca organizatiile de mai sus se bazeaza pe niste persoane care nu au niciun fel de competente in acest domeniu si bat campii?

Ce il face pe acest Peter Attia persona care trebuie ascultata?  El zice ca niste studii din trecut s-au desfasurat intr-un mod incorect/neprofesionist samd.
Nimeni nu a luat-o de la zero cu studiile lor si s-a bazat pe acele studii din trecut care erau eronate si gata, toate recomandarile in materie de nutritie sunt eronate. Iti dai seama cat de naiv suna chestia asta!

Acum vad ca a fost invitat la Joe Rogan, acolo unde sunt invitati, in materie de nutritie, DOAR oamenii care sustin keto/paleo/atkins/carnivore samd

P.S. Eu ti-am raspuns pt ca ma plictiseam si totodata stiu ca nu am NICIO SANSA sa-ti schimb punctul de vedere...

18
Lifestyle / Alimentatia sanatoasa
« on: 28 November 2018, 22:32 »
Ba din contra, e foarte relevant ce mancau, asa macar stim efectele pe termen lung.

Colegul cand zice timpuri imemoriale, vorbeste de perioade de (cel putin) 10.000-15.000 ani, dinainte de implementarea agriculturii.
Ce crezi ca poti sa obtii din acele perioade? Stii de ce boli sufereau oamenii, cu exceptia unor cazuri izolate, unde s-au studiat niste cadavre gasite prin boscheti? Ai o imagine de ansamblu?

Cui ii pasa ce mancau pe timpuri imemoriale... oricine? Are vreo valoare?
Nu am chef de polemica pe baza alimentatiei "paleo, keto", dar argumentul "cu ce mancau oamenii acum zde mii de ani" e pueril si extrem de usor de combatut.
chiar te rog, avem ce discuta.
-

- in multe locuri se pastreaza traditia, iara organele AFAIK le gasesti in magazine..cel putin ficat inima rinichi etc.
- exista deja un numar de articole, carti, lecturi si lucrari stiintifice care DEMOLEAZA toata.. ori care a fost ideea la inceput in anii 60:

strategia de prevenire a bolilor cardiovasculare. bazata pe ipoteza gresita a grasimii luata drept cauza. aka the lipid hypothesis
toate datele cu boli degenerative urca vertiginos cam de cand consumul de zahar si ulei rafinat a crescut. si aici sunt studii lungi pe tari si perioade, extrem de relevante!deci. vorbim stiinta. nu babe pe drum iesite duminica la biserica. s t i i n t a.

attia a vorbit aici despre cum a inceput si unde am ajuns, ca multi altii deja:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhzV-J1h0do
un mic fapt important: keys a pacalit doctorii folosind margarina -trans fats- in teste, in loc de untura.
si daca margarina e interzisa in romania/europa (oare este?) atunci cititi va rog despre uleiurile hidrogenate - aceeasi marie cu alta palarie.

Imi zici de stiinta... Stiinta aia care am boldito eu mai sus. Acea stiinta se rezuma, in acest domeniu, la acele studii stiintifice din nutritie. Acele studii pot fi finantate sau/si sponsorizate.
Ce vreau sa zic: la orice studiu care iti zice X, se poate gasi un studiu care pot zice X negat.

Imi place totusi ca ai scris de dieta lui Longo, care e tinut in brate, atat de sustinatori paleo/keto, cat si de unii vegani, fiecare spunand ca Longo sustin modul de alimentatie paleo/keto, respesctiv plant based. :)


In acest domeniu, nu se inteleg asa zisii experti intre ei, asa ca ma indoiesc profund ca simplii oameni pot ajunge la un punct comun de vedere...
Toata lumea mananca, astfel, toata lumea are un punct de vedere (argumentat stiintific sau nu)

P.S. Ia un studiu: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29844096 . Nu zice nimic despre bolile cardiovasculare, ci doar despre ficat ce-i drept.

19
Lifestyle / Alimentatia sanatoasa
« on: 26 November 2018, 20:19 »
...
pe timpuri imemoriale vanatorii mancau carne dar mai mult organe si grasime animala. mai putina paine (si inghetata)!
...

Cui ii pasa ce mancau pe timpuri imemoriale... oricine? Are vreo valoare?
Nu am chef de polemica pe baza alimentatiei "paleo, keto", dar argumentul "cu ce mancau oamenii acum zde mii de ani" e pueril si extrem de usor de combatut.

20
Si la mine va rog. Am avut acelasi nickname si inainte pe computergamesforum. Va multumesc anticipat.

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