Author Topic: Toti episcopii catolici din Chile si-au dat demisia  (Read 3183 times)

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Monier

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in mod ciudat acesti 34 neispraviti spera sa isi poata continua munca de pastorie in caz ca papa nu le accepta demisia...

este vorba bineinteles de un scandal de pedofilie si alte lucruri care - dupa ei - li se intampla numai in iad celor rai. nu unor copii nevinovati si neputinciosi.
demisia lor vine dupa trei zile la vatican; papa a zis ca ii e rusine si ca accepta raspunderea, ca nu poate pune faptele lor pe spatele altora.
well duh!


pentru ca puterea internetului e mare, stim ca o vorba nelalocul ei sau un incident nefericit poate costa o companie o tona de bani si chiar faliment.
sper ca vine timpul cand biserica catolica se va darama definitiv dupa ce lumea afla cat de mult rau a facut atator copii!!
sper sa dispara, ca o amintire neplacuta. daca ieri nu credeam asta, azi am mai mult decat o speranta, cum zise wells in kane.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/18/world/europe/chile-bishops-resign-sex-abuse-francis.html
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-44169484
 

Monier

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Re: Toti episcopii catolici din Chile si-au dat demisia
« Reply #1 on: 20 May 2018, 00:48 »
intrebarea mea: oare daca tu ai o organizatie cu milioane de cotizanti, si faci bine, dai de mancare la saraci, sponsorizezi programe, scoli, ai spitale etc. dar intre timp se decopera ca
sute; mii; zeci de mii de copii
au fost abuzati si violati de angajatii tai.

atunci poti cantari cat bine faci fata de rau? e permis sa scuzi un rau cu un bine?
sau raul facut trebuie judecat si vinovatii pedepsiti? pentru ca.. stiti... gramezi de infractori au grija de familii si au facut bine.

oare mai conteaza ca acei cotizanti cred in sfintii lor si vor sa pastreze o biserica corupta si stricata?
 

Offline oldshooterman

Re: Toti episcopii catolici din Chile si-au dat demisia
« Reply #2 on: 20 May 2018, 13:42 »
Biserica e o mare "afacere" de la nivel local si pana la nivel global, care exploateaza slabiciunea/credinta "cotizantilor". Are si o putere politica semnificativa asigurata de numarul mare de "cotizanti".

Nu intotdeauna coincide ceea ce zic popii cu ceea ce fac. In mod normal, popii ar trebui tratati ca orice alt cetatean in ceea ce priveste raspunderea in fata legii general valabile pentru oricine.
 

Offline Irenicus

Re: Toti episcopii catolici din Chile si-au dat demisia
« Reply #3 on: 20 May 2018, 14:40 »
Biserica, la fel ca si orice alta organizatie de pe fata pamantului, e compusa din oameni. Oamenii sunt falibili si uneori rau intewntionati. Sa desfiintezi cea mai mare organizatie caritabila din lume pentru ca x angajati nu sunt ok e prostie.
O cureti, o reformezi si o lasi sa continue lucrurile bune care le face.
 

Offline Outofmymind

Toti episcopii catolici din Chile si-au dat demisia
« Reply #4 on: 20 May 2018, 23:32 »
True. Generalizarile de mai sus sunt de prost-gust. Nu-i poti baga pe toti in aceeasi oala
« Last Edit: 22 May 2018, 11:44 by AlexU »
Drop the Punisher on one end of Latveria, and the Hulk on the other, and see who gets to the middle first.
 

Offline Wagram

Toti episcopii catolici din Chile si-au dat demisia
« Reply #5 on: 14 August 2018, 08:33 »
Biserica, la fel ca si orice alta organizatie de pe fata pamantului, e compusa din oameni. Oamenii sunt falibili si uneori rau intewntionati. Sa desfiintezi cea mai mare organizatie caritabila din lume pentru ca x angajati nu sunt ok e prostie.
O cureti, o reformezi si o lasi sa continue lucrurile bune care le face.

Cine s-o cureţe, s-o reformeze ? Ţi se pare că e biserica aşa dornică de reformare ? Mai ales la cum joacă alba-neagra cu fachirii pedofili de la o parohie la alta ?

Post Merge: 15 August 2018, 08:19
Luaţi de-aici, articol de acum câteva ore.

https://news.sky.com/story/child-abuse-including-rape-by-hundreds-of-priests-in-pennsylvania-was-covered-up-11473047

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"Church officials routinely and purposefully described the abuse as horseplay and wrestling and inappropriate conduct. It was none of those things. It was child sexual abuse, including rape."

Quote
The abuse of more than 1,000 children for decades by hundreds of priests in Pennsylvania was systemically covered up by church officials, including the current archbishop of Washington, according to a grand jury report.

Cum era aia cu "cea mai mare organizaţie caritabilă" ? Cea mai darnică cu datul la buci copiilor. Mai e vreo instituţie cu atâţia pedofili ca Biserica ?  Hai că-s fair play, includ la instituţii şi închisorile.
« Last Edit: 15 August 2018, 08:19 by Wagram »
 

Offline Benvolio

Toti episcopii catolici din Chile si-au dat demisia
« Reply #6 on: 15 August 2018, 21:34 »
Unii zic ca in cele mai multe cazuri nu vorba de pedofilie cu copii, ci de homosexualitate cu adolescenti:

https://onepeterfive.com/church-problem-not-pedophilia-homosexuality/

Quote
But separate from the reconstruction of the facts of the Barros affair, the case of Chile is important because it confirms what is already well-known but is always silenced: the so-called “pedophilia cases” are actually an overwhelming majority of incidents of homosexuality. As is known, pedophilia properly refers to the attraction of adults for pre-pubescent children. When such attraction is directed towards teenagers, one must instead speak of ephebophilia which is initiated by homosexual persons. This is what we are talking about in Chile, but it also is true for at least 80% of the cases which are erroneously reported in the news as cases of pedophilia in the Church. This is at least the conclusion which emerges from the reports of John Jay College on the cases of abuse registered in the Church in the United States.

https://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/23/world/americas/23chile.html

Quote
Like many pulled into Father Karadima’s orbit, James Hamilton said he worshiped him almost from the moment he was chosen at the age of 17 to be part of his Catholic Action youth movement. The priest became his confessor, his spiritual adviser, his father figure.

“He was God’s representative over me,” said Dr. Hamilton, now 44 years old and a gastric surgeon.

For weeks after joining the movement, he shrugged off kisses on the mouth and pats on his genitals from the priest, he said. Then one day, while on a retreat at a seaside town west of Santiago, Dr. Hamilton said, Father Karadima took his intimate play much further.

“I was paralyzed, frozen,” Dr. Hamilton said [...]

Juan Carlos Cruz, a Chilean who is now a corporate executive in the United States, said that when he was a 17-year-old seminary student who had just lost his father, Father Karadima also used confession as way to abuse him, touching his genitals and kissing him on the mouth. He said that in confession he had told Father Karadima that he was confused about his sexuality. He said the priest took advantage of that knowledge to intimidate him into remaining silent.

[...]

Dr. Hamilton characterized the trauma of the abuse as so great that it continued until he was 38, even after he married, to a woman who regularly confessed to Father Karadima. The couple would go to Mass every night and often be invited to dinner with the priest. Father Karadima would sometimes ask Dr. Hamilton to accompany him upstairs to his room to attend to a nagging medical condition. The sexual contact would continue, even as his wife and children were downstairs, Dr. Hamilton said.

« Last Edit: 15 August 2018, 21:56 by Benvolio »
 

Offline astateofmind

Toti episcopii catolici din Chile si-au dat demisia
« Reply #7 on: 16 August 2018, 20:12 »
Unii zic ca in cele mai multe cazuri nu vorba de pedofilie cu copii, ci de homosexualitate cu adolescenti:

https://onepeterfive.com/church-problem-not-pedophilia-homosexuality/

Quote
But separate from the reconstruction of the facts of the Barros affair, the case of Chile is important because it confirms what is already well-known but is always silenced: the so-called “pedophilia cases” are actually an overwhelming majority of incidents of homosexuality. As is known, pedophilia properly refers to the attraction of adults for pre-pubescent children. When such attraction is directed towards teenagers, one must instead speak of ephebophilia which is initiated by homosexual persons. This is what we are talking about in Chile, but it also is true for at least 80% of the cases which are erroneously reported in the news as cases of pedophilia in the Church. This is at least the conclusion which emerges from the reports of John Jay College on the cases of abuse registered in the Church in the United States.


NU a mers in cazul lui Milo, care si el vorbea de adolescenti (peste 14 ani) dar tot la pedofili l-au incadrat.

https://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/23/world/americas/23chile.html

Deah, pt ca un caz anecdotic se poate generaliza la miile de alte cazuri.
ignore list: monier, taribobo,narayanhd,wolfenste
 

Offline Benvolio

Toti episcopii catolici din Chile si-au dat demisia
« Reply #8 on: 16 August 2018, 22:16 »
Deah, pt ca un caz anecdotic se poate generaliza la miile de alte cazuri.

Nu e "un caz anecdotic", e cazul de la care a pornit discutia, ala din Chile, din cauza caruia s-a ajuns sa fie vorba de demisia episcopilor (pt ca unii l-au acoperit). Din link-ul la BBC pus de Monier in primul post:

Quote
The upset centres on Bishop Juan Barros, who is accused of using his position in the Catholic Church to try to block an investigation into his mentor, Catholic priest Fernando Karadima.

Fr Karadima was an influential priest who was found guilty by the Vatican of sexually abusing young boys in the 1970s and 80s and sentenced to a lifetime of "penance and prayer".

He never faced criminal prosecution in Chile as too much time had passed, but the judge who heard victims' testimony in a year-long investigation described them as "truthful and reliable".

Pope Francis appointed Bishop Barros three years ago despite the cover-up allegations. He is not accused of carrying out abuse himself.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-44169484

Dar apropo, si in cazul de la noi, cu popa-cantaret Pomohaci, tot de un baiat de 17 ani a fost vorba (cel care l-a inregistrat):

Quote
După ce am ascultat înregistrarea pe calculatorul femeii, m-a revoltat nonșalanța cu care acest Cristian Pomohaci povestea cu victima sa, căci Flaviu, din discuția înregistrată (și Flaviu este cel care l-a înregistrat, avea la acea vreme 17 ani și era minor).

https://www.ziardecluj.ro/celebrul-preot-ortodox-cristian-pomohaci-presat-un-minor-sa-accepte-sa-aiba-cu-el-relatii-homosexuale-facem-sex-te-platesc-pentru-sex-arata-mi-ii-spalat

La noi cazuri de-astea sunt din fericire mult mai rare, probabil pt ca popii se casatoresc de regula (inclusiv cei greco-catolici), dar in cele de care am auzit din presa, din cate imi amintesc, tot de adolescenti era vorba.
« Last Edit: 16 August 2018, 22:24 by Benvolio »
 

Offline astateofmind

Toti episcopii catolici din Chile si-au dat demisia
« Reply #9 on: 16 August 2018, 23:47 »

Nu e "un caz anecdotic", e cazul de la care a pornit discutia, ala din Chile, din cauza caruia s-a ajuns sa fie vorba de demisia episcopilor (pt ca unii l-au acoperit). Din link-ul la BBC pus de Monier in primul post:

Tot nu e ok sa-l generalizezi la restul cazurilor. Mai ales ca sunt diferite, tari diferite, etc.

Si chiar daca nu e pedofilie per se tot abuz sexual se numeste si e caz penal. Acoperirea cazurilor tot de cacat este. Oricat ai incerca sa le iei apararea :D
« Last Edit: 16 August 2018, 23:53 by astateofmind »
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